Curse

lyra_song · Jan 04, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

They are exactly as mandatory as as any other part of the game. To state the obvious One can't play in dragon's throat without playing in dragons throat any more than Once can compete in DoA without playing in DoA.

So are you telling me that everything in Guild Wars is mandatory? I dont quite understand this perspective.

If i can play and enjoy Guild Wars without having to play certain parts of it, I do not consider those sections mandatory.

For example, Getting to Dragon's Throat is mandatory, since the pre-requisite to play Dragon's Throat is having that location in the first place. However, the mission itself is not mandatory since it is not a prerequisite for anything (at least the NF challenge missions reward you with hero armor).

If i wanna play in UW/FoW, i need to be ascended (and its factions/nf equivalents). Being ascended is the pre-requisite and mandatory. But UW/FoW itself is only mandatory if you want the rewards (XP/Items/HoM monument) specifically from just those areas. Beating those areas do not unlock more quests or features.

Anything that is required to unlock or access portions of the game such as new outposts and areas of gameplay (and not superfluous rewards like items/XP/titles/monuments) is what i consider mandatory.

Challenge missions are most certainly not mandatory in the game.

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The mandatory grind exists because PvE skills cannot be used at full effectiveness without doing it. Without fully effective PvE skills level playing fields don't exist.

I don't see the PvE skills as imbalancing the playing field since I see no competition in PvE.

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To stay with the golf analogy, I don't care about Timmy any more than I care about his handicap. I do care about the latest club tournament and the course records. It does matter when half the people in the tournament are hitting off the ladies tee.

You're still measuring yourself against other people. This is a human design. It is YOU who is creating this competitive environment, not the golf course.

If you take this mindset, EVERYTHING becomes a competitive environment. Walking down the street, eating, sleeping, baking cookies, scanning pictures, whatever.If two people do the same thing, and one person considers it simply a task, while the other person considers it competition, Is it really a competition? The competitive mindset is all in the person's head.

This mindset is irrelevant to the difficulty and design of the course.
Your performance in PvE is against the environment, not against people.

Even i the competitive missions, its still monsters who spawn and fight you.

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From my perspective, your way of playing is just as alien. Without measuring and comparing your performance you have no way to determine success or failure which takes any enjoyment out of the game. The difference is that I'm willing to accept that people play the game differently.

If I die in a mission, its pretty obvious that I've failed.
If I cannot beat a mission, its obvious that I've failed.
If I beat the designated time limits that the game challenges me with to gain Masters, then I consider that a success.

I don't need other people to tell me if im a success or a failure, since the game has forward progression. I'm competing against the game design.

I'm not denying that PvE can be quite a competitive environment. I do understand that people have different mindsets of how they play and choose to play based on those mindsets.

But their mindset doesn't change how the game mechanics itself behaves.

You can keep beating a specific mission and consider it a competition and you want to be the best at it, but that doesn't make it a competitive mission except in your head since theres no validation of anything.

The titles are nothing but proof of a completed task. You can use these as measures of competition, but its nothing but a competition to see who can complete a task.

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I've already shown you how GW PvE is just as competitive as Golf, unless you're going to tell me competition is not part of golf either.

Actually I can do that very easily.

Golf is a sport. It can be a competitive sport.
You can play a round of golf by yourself and not compete with anyone.

Soccer is a sport. But it is a competitive sport by default.
Soccer by its nature always two opposing sides trying to outscore each other.

Me, I snowboard and I do Capoeira.

Snowboarding is a great sport. By its nature, its a person on a board riding down a snow covered slope. Success is reaching the bottom in one piece. ;p Failure is...well...obvious and painful (ive had the concussion to prove it).

We can attach all sorts of competitive things to snowboarding like fastest times, highest jump, best trick, etc. But in the end of the day, the mechanic of snowboarding is still between the person against the mountain (not withstanding actual side by side racing).

We can contrast this to Capoeira. In the roda, in the game, you are with a partner/opponent and by nature a competitive game.

The person is your competition, but at the same time, this person is your partner. You are supposed to help as well as hinder each other. You work your game and attack, as well as defend and counter-attack. You want to show to everyone in the roda that you are better than your partner and at the same time expose the weak points of your partner so they can defend or escape better next time. The only way you become stronger is with a stronger partner so you want your partner to progress just as you are progressing. More combos, faster kicks, slipperier esquivas, quicker counter-rastieras.

Two sports, one is naturally competitive vs a person, the other is competitive vs an environment.

cellardweller · Jan 06, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18